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- Cindy Perry http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-and-translations/the-masoretic-text-and-the-dead-sea-scrolls/
www.biblicalarchaeology.orgDo insights from the Dead Sea Scrolls add to the Masoretic text, and if so, should the original Hebrew Bible text be modified based this information? - Karen Freeman Worstell The KJV does not incorporate any updates from the DSS. And that is a loss. I had not paid much attention to Bibles until I had an elderly relative ask me to help her get a book to the local university library for a donation. It was wrapped in a dishtowel and rubber bands. When I unwrapped it to see what we were delivering, it was a 1560 Geneva Bible. It was a response to the Calvinists in Geneva that prompted King James to commission his own Bible (without the anti-Catholic margin notes).
Tovia Behanu John Paterson ... so? It's still a translation into English done by a bunch of christians in the 17th century.
Mark Don'taddmetoappsgamesorgroups Pitrone The KJV only-ist that you were talking to had heard that the Isaiah Scroll found in Qumran was virtually identical to the Masoretic text from which the KJV was translated into middle english 1800 years after the DSS were HIDDEN in the caves for safe-keeping. Either the guy who told him that said that the one proves the other to be inspired or he jumped to that conclusion himself.
Since KJV has been what I have used for 35 years, it is the version I am most comfortable with and against which I compare all other english translations; none of which match it, in my opinion. I've found some recent translations by Messy teachers that come close and apply Hebraisms and idioms better, But having a good idea of where they are and understanding the translators' biases, I am able to work around the problems the KJV has. For metre, flow and ease of understanding, I have not found its equal.
YOU may disagree, but you haven't grown up with it, like I have. It fits me like a well broken in shoe.
- Karen Freeman Worstell @Mark - the KJV is one of the truest translations to the MT (another is the ESV). It is a literal translation and an excellent resource. There is new info available from the DSS which was not added to the KJV - it is "locked" so to speak - but as long as one uses other translations in parallel with KJV, that is not an issue.
- Dovid Smith Translation approximates, it does not convey - even in the hands of brilliant translators - the subtle richness of the original work in its original language - whatever it is. Dostoyevski was better in Russian. The Tin Drum was much better in German. Some things just don't translate as exactly as people believe they do.
- Mike Merichko Mark, i agree. You can still discern an Hebraic Message in the KJB. If they disagree fine, no beefs here.
- Karen Freeman Worstell Dovid, that's true. But for people who don't read Hebrew, a next best alternative is to use multiple translations and compare.
- David A Kitchens Dovid...Agreed, even in the best hands of the most honest translators...there are some things that simply do not translate well. In some cases cannot be translated.
- Mark Don'taddmetoappsgamesorgroups Pitrone You're right, Karen. It doesn't incorporate new stuff from new sources, because it is inanimate. It can't incorporate anything, itself; someone has to do the incorporation of new stuff to it. I would love to see a hard copy Restored Names KJV, which would just restore Hebrew names back into the text, both Tanakh and Apostolic. When I read the thing aloud for my Shabbat Studies, I try to do that as I reach the names, but I miss sometimes. You know: Yeshua, YeshaYahu, Avraham, Moshe, etc.
- Dovid Smith It's the part about the multiple translations and comparing that seems to be the missed step with many people - I have been told that the KJV is the literal word of G-d and "more accurate" than the Hebrew Torah itself. So while in many ways the KJV is a good literal translation if you want word substitution - it is definitely lacking in the cultural flavour and culture that shaped the words. And people who are not multilingual or exposed to other languages don't understand that word substitution is not what "translation" really is - only the first baby step of it.
- Karen Freeman Worstell Of course it is. I can just imagine a publisher saying, "We're going to update the KJV." Might be big news. Probably not worth the political capital.
- Mark Don'taddmetoappsgamesorgroups Pitrone They did it in the early 80s and called it New King James.
- Dovid Smith Well, I am American, so I don't necessarily think that is true. But I am much more a polyglot than most of my peers, I admit.
- Mark Don'taddmetoappsgamesorgroups Pitrone I have an on-line RNKJV and a HNV, but there are no cool search engines with it.
- Mark Don'taddmetoappsgamesorgroups Pitrone Like myself, one self-taught in Hebrew JUST enough to be dangerous to myself and those around me.
- Dovid Smith I have a thing for languages, so I've formally and informally studied 10. But growing up as an Army brat helped. I'm functional in a few more, literate in several additionally to that - but I don't talk much in anything other than English.
- Tovia Behanu How good a translation is "James" as in "the book of Jame" ... yes I can see it now, I baptize thee Yeshua, Yehudah and Jimmy. Maybe there was a Jim-Bob in there too.
John Paterson John Paterson ... so? It's still a translation into English done by a bunch of christians in the 17th century.
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Here is the Wikipedia entry on the King James Bible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_james_bible
If you were to compare the Hebrew that is the source of the King James Bible, the Hebrew in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Hebrew used as a source for the KJV is very close. Not much in terms of difference in meaning between them.
en.wikipedia.orgIn the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without...See More- Tovia Behanu John Paterson do you are with that wiki article?
As it says,
'James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ordained clergy. The translation was done by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.'
No bias there eh? - John Paterson You might want to look at that page again. On the right hand side, it tells you the Hebrew and Greek sources.
Textual basis:
NT: Textus Receptus, similar to the Byzantine text-type; some readings derived from the Vulgate. OT: Masoretic Text with Septuagint influence.[citation needed] Apocrypha: Septuagint and Vulgate. - Dovid Smith Just because they used source material that was good for their purposes doesn't mean they didn't have an agenda, John Paterson.
- John Paterson You're always welcome to become perfectly fluent in ancient Greek and Hebrew and find that agenda, Dovid.
I'm sure if there were any inaccuracies, somebody would have pointed them out. - Dovid Smith LOL I have little interest in Koine Greek and I've got Hebrew covered in that list mentioned earlier. The list of inaccuracies is rather long - but that doesn't really matter if you believe hard enough. So believe whatever you need to.
- Tovia Behanu Some KJV questions:
1. Pointing to the source texts gives zero indication to how accurate the translation was.
2. Why would the language skill set of of translators 400 years ago be superior to what we know now?
3. Why would a group of christians, ignorant of and/or biased against a Jewish rendering be considered accurate?
4. Why would we think that a group of men hired by the king to create a translation consistent with the views of the episcopal church of the king be considered objective?
5. Why is Jacob called James in the NT ... I wonder. 
Mike Carroll to disprove the kjv only theory you would have to find one error in it...the kjv says easter when the greek clearly says passover...
Brian Sandridge People love to look down on those not as learned as themselves.
As a poster above stated DSS Isaiah apparently was conserved intact to the Masoretics.
And as KJV has always had an excellent reputation in its Hebrew translations, the KJV Supporter is not far wrong.
Snide "experts" must demonstrate the breadth of their Wisdom! They are wise in their eyes.- Mike Carroll i don't think anyone is looking down on anyone...just the translating...think anyone who thinks the kjv is more inspired than the words our creator spoke is far wrong...
- Tovia Behanu FYI all ... This 'debate' did not stem from the KJV being a good translation - it stems from those saying it is the ONLY one we should use and was 'ordained of G-d' etc.
Tina Todd I would like to know the pure Hebrew of all the words of the Bible. Then we could have a clearer insight as to what was really being said.- Patricia Tovah Janovsky @Tina...on Sid Roth last week he had a guest, Rabbi ben Gigi. He published a bible in transliterated Hebrew (phonetic Hebrew) so anyone can read it without learning Hebrew. I think you can find it on Amazon.com
- Mike Merichko Tovia, very sorry about that guy, (he actually teaches racist type teachings. I guess he has a problem with YHWH and His Sovereign will. And also sorry for defending him.
Tiffiny Breshears Johnson if you like to parallel different versions.. there is a site called www.biblegateway.com that has a great side by side parallel... and it has many different translations.. I use the King James and the Complete Jewish bible side by side.. it helps me.. I grew up with the KJV so it helps when I am reading the CJS.. it also has great search engines with it and it is completely free..
www.biblegateway.com“[God’s Final Word: His Son] In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the ...See More
Karen Steinberg Am I the only one who is dying to add Mark Don'taddmetoappsgamesorgroups Pitrone to one of our groups?
Joshua Haltom Synonymns... together// Arvut.... there will always be something about every letter in any translation of the Bible, etc. another other may could open our mind's eye to see
Translation happened after Tower of Babel// FORWARD?
ONLY Together
Monday, December 3, 2012
Facebook mishnah about Bible translations
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